Vox reporter Matthew Yglesias joins us from Washington on this week's podcast to talk to presenter Sinéad O'Carroll about what the phrase 'defund the police means'. We've heard this phrase used in the US a lot during Black Lives Matter protests in the wake of the tragic killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. But why is this phrase being used, and what does it mean? In addition, what can it tell us about how policing currently works in the US? That's what we discuss on this week's podcast.